Microsoft Fanboy? Hardly..
It would appear that in a couple of comments I posted on the IE blog, I've come across as a Microsoft fanboy! To summarise, the point I was responding to was one that basically said:
My main thrust was that the statement I paraphrased above is simply untrue. Many people have (and rightly so) accused Microsoft of using a FUD strategy, and false statements like that one are of a very similar ilk. Oh - and a re-reading of my comment would highlight the fact that I didn't state that I disagreed with the need for a public bug tracking system for IE, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.
Now, onto the "fanboy" accusation. Baseless. Utterly baseless. Yes, I use Microsoft technologies, but I'd be equally happy (well, not so much because the toolset simply isn't as grokkable as Visual Studio, even with all its foibles) to use JSP rather than ASP.net, after all, it's really all just syntax. A semicolon here, a curly bracket there, or, god forbid, a With/EndWith ;)
B. Cortez said:
Also, "If you bothered to look, or be involved in cross-browser web development in any form", how does anyone know that I'm not? document.getElementById makes me squee, document.all makes me want to retch. The inconsistencies in the box model and having to use big dirty ClearFix-esque hacks make me angry.
Remember, don't assume, it'll make an "ASS out of U and", well that's where I break from the traditional version of the saying, because assuming only makes an ass out of one person. The person making the assumption.
That point is simply not true. Opera has a bug reporting page, Safari has a bug reporting page and Firefox does have a public bug tracking system. Thusly, all other browsers do not have public bug tracking systems. Yes, Webkit (the rendering engine that underlies Safari) does have a public bug tracking system (which I may have to acronym as PBTS before my fingers drop off!) but the rendering engine isn't the only part of a browser by any stretch of the imagination.
All other browsers have a public bug tracking system, so why doesn't IE?
My main thrust was that the statement I paraphrased above is simply untrue. Many people have (and rightly so) accused Microsoft of using a FUD strategy, and false statements like that one are of a very similar ilk. Oh - and a re-reading of my comment would highlight the fact that I didn't state that I disagreed with the need for a public bug tracking system for IE, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.
Now, onto the "fanboy" accusation. Baseless. Utterly baseless. Yes, I use Microsoft technologies, but I'd be equally happy (well, not so much because the toolset simply isn't as grokkable as Visual Studio, even with all its foibles) to use JSP rather than ASP.net, after all, it's really all just syntax. A semicolon here, a curly bracket there, or, god forbid, a With/EndWith ;)
B. Cortez said:
Well, if you bothered to look into it even on a superficial level, you'd see that a Bugzilla system has the ability to search, as well as "sign-up" to be notified of changes to the bug report (via email notifications). Also, you can, amazingly, VOTE for a bug. This is the weight given to the bug by, imagine this, CONCERNED CUSTOMERS.Bugzilla. Yes, I've used it before. The company I worked for until the end of November implemented it to replace Rational ClearQuest, what a breath of fresh air that was! The company I work for now uses a custom built defect tracking system, but I'm trying to sell them on Bugzilla. Nowhere did I say that I didn't know how Bugzilla worked, or what it does. In fact, I quite like it. (I especially like the Mozilla artwork that loads whilst searching and chomps bugs ;)
Also, "If you bothered to look, or be involved in cross-browser web development in any form", how does anyone know that I'm not? document.getElementById makes me squee, document.all makes me want to retch. The inconsistencies in the box model and having to use big dirty ClearFix-esque hacks make me angry.
Remember, don't assume, it'll make an "ASS out of U and", well that's where I break from the traditional version of the saying, because assuming only makes an ass out of one person. The person making the assumption.
I too was following this "discussion" on the IE Blog.
I think william was (rightfully so) ranting about MSIEs lack of commitment to anything regarding fixing their browser, and being transparent about it. 'Bug Tracking' was probably the wrong term to use, but since IE doesn't even have a proper submission option (the first 50% of the equation) it doesn't get to join the "real" browser club.
My view is that Bugzilla for WebKit, is as good as a bug tracker as far as I need for Safari. If I enter a bug there, I can track it until fixed. When Safari pushes it out to their release is another story, but there are details available on that too.
Konqueror can be tracked through KDE's tracker, but Opera's system is a little one sided. The site's title does indicate "Opera Bug Tracking System" but I haven't entered a bug in their yet, so I do not know if it is trackable once entered.
I'm not going to take a side in this argument other than to say that regardless of "who" is right, the Internet Explorer team has a VERY LONG way to go before it will be re-establishing respect from the web development community.
ted
I have been following this too. And to people like William out there, I would say to stop trying to make IE a open source project. It's not. Theere are pros and cons to each.
I use the MSDN forums for your current issues when developing applications for their current browser. As a developer, this is what affects me currently, not trying to set a direction for future versions of a browser. I need to focus on meeting my customer needs today with whatever browser they are using.
Firstly, apologies for the delay in approving comments, one of those busy work days today! :)
Just to reiterate the basics of my point, other than to say that the commenter I was responding to said (paraphrased) "All other browsers have a public bug tracking system, so why doesn't IE?" that, and nothing else, was what I was disagreeing with as it's just not true. My opinion on whether IE *should* have a public bug tracking system are neither here nor there, and enough meat to fuel a future post I think ;)
One thing that, sadly, didn't surprise me was the way some commenters basically resorted to personal attacks (I quote: "So, Rob, what gets up my nose are Microsoft fanboys that speak before they listen.") rather than actually addressing the points I made. Although, that's not unusual on the web where anonymity makes it easier to play the "kids in the schoolyard" behaviour and get away with it.